8 comments

• Comment Link Monday, 28 November 2011 11:28 posted by Adam Ericksen

  Hi KT,
  
  Thank you for your very thoughtful and engaging response to the video. I think you are on to something very important and you've got me thinking! Your comment that Jesus wasn't just about going to heaven makes so much sense. He said, "The Kingdom of God/Heaven is among you." Indeed, Jesus' message wasn't about going to heaven, it was about heaven on earth. "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." That's what he invites us to participate in. The cross is a crucial point (but not the only point) in understanding what this means. I think the way in which we should understand the biblical language of "Jesus dying for us" is not to avert God's "wrath" but, as you point out, to transform us. Jesus died for us in order to transform us and our understanding of God. God forgives. Throughout his ministry Jesus offered divine forgiveness. But few people believed it. In face, the religious authorities questioned it. But Jesus died on the cross the same way he lived - by offering forgiveness. "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Jesus died a horrible death at the hands of humans (not God) in order to show us once and for all that God forgives. After his death, Jesus was resurrected and doesn't enact divine wrath, but offers divine forgiveness. B/c God isn't wrathful. As John claims, "God is light and in him there is no darkness."
  
  Peace,
  Adam

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• Comment Link Saturday, 26 November 2011 20:46 posted by KT

  Hosea 6:6 “For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God rather than sacrifice'' and again cited by Jesus in Matthew 9:13 and Matthew 12:7 ?

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• Comment Link Saturday, 26 November 2011 20:42 posted by kt

  Most Christians say “JC paid the price for our sins by dying in our place.” “Jesus, is a substitute to satisfy God’s wrath” “He had to die and it was part of God’s plan to save us”
  Is it in the Bible? I am not sure.
  This thinking was first articulated by Anslem of Canterbury in 1097 in his book Cur Deus Homo. The Question was why did God come down as a human? His answer was “Retributive justice or Penalty for our sins or the substitutionary atonement.
  1. This thinking completely obscures and obliterates the historical meaning of his death. He just did not die. He was tortured and killed violently by the established authority both religious and ruling. They did not like what they heard about Him. He was challenging to their established authority. They killed him in a very public way, not in the back alley. The message was clear “This is what happens if you want to challenge us”
  2. This thinking portrays God as primarily punitive. Gandhi struggled with this. Even though he followed Sermon of on the mount literally he refused to believe that JC died for our sins. This thinking explains the human Law which says there is appropriate punishment for a given crime. Whether direct or substitution, it is still a punishment, justice had to be upheld at any cost. But In God we see pure love or agape love which is unconditional and is against every law in the world. God does not require our blood or blood of Jesus.
  3. This thinking diminishes Christianity. Is it all about sin, forgiving, believe that Jesus died for our sins and a blessed afterlife? What about His WAY of life, what about when he calls us to take up the cross and follow Him ? What about when He call us to love our enemies ? These are indeed very unique to our faith. It is a whole lot easier to just believe in Jesus like another Idol or a fan and look forward for the after heavenly life.
  Then how do we explain that loving God could not save His own son when he was tearfully pleading and saying why he was forsaken ? Jesus knew Love can be given only in full freedom. Only in the knowledge of both Good and evil ( Genesis) people can love each other. God had to let the evil in full freedom have its way on that Good Friday. Yes it was a huge risk on God's part giving us the freewill but that was the only way we realize and then cannot fathom the depth and the width of the amazing grace, freedom and Love of Our God.
  What I observe in Bible it is about Transformation of us and the world. Jesus is not just about going to Heaven. He would not have prayed to God to bring His will (Love) to earth as it is in Heaven.
  God does Love all of us. He wants to possess us, He is passionate about us, He is crazy about us. He is indeed jealous God for very good reason.

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• Comment Link Friday, 14 October 2011 16:53 posted by J.C. Mitchell

  I heard a smart man say (well I read a tweet) "The Bible is not part of the Trinity." Oh how it is often, and while what you state it very Biblical and Orthodox, I know people will think otherwise. Understanding that the Logos, (the word) of God is Jesus does allow one to understand the paradoxes and contradictions within the texts, while knowing the full truth of the scriptures.
  Blessings, JC

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• Comment Link Thursday, 13 October 2011 22:14 posted by John Lionberger

  Love it, Adam. You nailed it. Thank you.

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• Comment Link Thursday, 13 October 2011 15:58 posted by Andrew McKenna

  concise, clear, and, as usual and always very importantly, redolent with good humor. Scripture challenges scripture not because it is incoherent, but because it is a human document alive with the spirit of God, with ongoing Creation.

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• Comment Link Wednesday, 12 October 2011 10:03 posted by Adam Ericksen

  Thanks for the comment, Chance! I especially like that your statement about taking the Bible seriously. That's one of the big issues for this topic. We should take the Bible seriously, which for me means literally in some places and figuratively in others. But it points beyond itself to Christ, who interprets the Bible through the lens of mercy, not sacrifice. That makes a huge difference in our hermeneutics.
  
  Grace and peace,
  Adam

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• Comment Link Sunday, 09 October 2011 11:35 posted by Chance

  Brilliant. I've been asking people this for years, and they usually look at me dumbfounded. "Of course the Bible is the Word of God. That's what my pastor has always said." But if the Bible says who the Word of God is, and we take the Bible seriously, we ought to believe it when it says the Word of God is something altogether different than a book.

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